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From: dewar@gnat.com
To: dewar@gnat.com, guerby@acm.org
Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, paulus@samba.org,
	trini@kernel.crashing.org, velco@fadata.bg
Subject: Re: [PATCH] C undefined behavior fix
Date: Sun,  6 Jan 2002 11:22:13 -0500 (EST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020106162213.37901F28C5@nile.gnat.com> (raw)

<<But even in the case of the compiler reading more (and writing anyway),
I think it  is the compiler burden to prove that the extra stuff
"read" is not observable (in the sense of external
effect) at execution. In a memory-mapped I/O architecture
where there is a distinction on external effects between a byte read
and a word read (eg: a crash :),  the compiler can't get very far IMHO
(if it accepts the declaration of course).
>>

External effects are well defined in Ada, see 1.1.3(8) of the RM. The
case you mention is not explicitly listed here, so is not an external
effect in the Ada sense. The rule is not that anything observable be
unaffected (after all performance is observable), but that the 
six explicit items in section 1.1.3(8) are not observable. Here they
are for those who do not have the Ada RM at hand (it is not that
Ada is so significant here, as that perhaps we can get some clues
for the desirable behavior in GNU C)

    9  Any interaction with an external file (see A.7);

   10  The execution of certain code_statements (see 13.8); which code_
       statements cause external interactions is implementation defined.

   11  Any call on an imported subprogram (see Annex B), including any
       parameters passed to it;

   12  Any result returned or exception propagated from a main
       subprogram (see 10.2) or an exported subprogram (see Annex B) to
       an external caller;

   13  Any read or update of an atomic or volatile object (see C.6);

   14  The values of imported and exported objects (see Annex B) at the
       time of any other interaction with the external environment.


             reply	other threads:[~2002-01-06 16:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 202+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-01-06 16:22 dewar [this message]
2002-01-06 16:39 ` Alan Cox
2002-01-06 19:27   ` Laurent Guerby
2002-01-06 19:43     ` Alan Cox
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-10 19:01 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-10 12:18 dewar
2002-01-10 12:37 ` Erik Trulsson
2002-01-10 15:27   ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-10  9:03 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-10 10:40 ` David Weinehall
2002-01-10  4:33 dewar
2002-01-10  2:16 dewar
2002-01-10  1:22 dewar
2002-01-10  1:21 dewar
2002-01-10  4:37 ` Tim Hollebeek
2002-01-09 21:54 dewar
2002-01-09 20:32 dewar
2002-01-09 21:43 ` Paul Koning
2002-01-09 20:08 dewar
2002-01-09 19:53 mike stump
2002-01-09 20:12 ` Paul Koning
2002-01-09 10:42 dewar
2002-01-09 10:41 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-09 21:59 ` Gérard Roudier
2002-01-09 10:40 dewar
2002-01-09  9:06 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-09  9:25 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2002-01-09  2:18 dewar
2002-01-09  2:13 dewar
2002-01-09  1:51 mike stump
2002-01-09  1:19 dewar
2002-01-09  0:51 dewar
2002-01-08 11:12 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-11  9:52 ` Horst von Brand
2002-01-08  9:44 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-08 11:44 ` 'jtv'
2002-01-08  0:16 mike stump
2002-01-08 11:33 ` jtv
2002-01-07 23:46 mike stump
2002-01-07 23:20 dewar
2002-01-07 23:15 dewar
2002-01-07 23:12 dewar
2002-01-07 23:11 dewar
2002-01-07 22:56 mike stump
2002-01-07 22:26 Tim McDaniel
2002-01-07 19:36 mike stump
2002-01-07 21:21 ` Theodore Tso
2002-01-08  0:19 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-08  1:02   ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-07 19:18 mike stump
2002-01-07 19:17 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-07 18:38 mike stump
2002-01-07 13:29 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-07 13:24 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-07 21:49 ` jtv
2002-01-07 22:28   ` Tim Hollebeek
2002-01-07 22:16     ` jtv
2002-01-08  0:27       ` J.A. Magallon
2002-01-08 11:41         ` jtv
2002-01-08 12:36           ` Alexandre Oliva
2002-01-08 12:58             ` jtv
2002-01-09 19:47         ` Gérard Roudier
2002-01-09 20:44           ` jtv
2002-01-09 23:49           ` J.A. Magallon
2002-01-10 10:13             ` Matthias Benkmann
2002-01-10  0:19           ` Peter Barada
2002-01-10  1:47             ` Fergus Henderson
2002-01-10 15:30             ` Peter Barada
2002-01-10 10:44           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2002-01-06 19:32 dewar
2002-01-06 19:29 dewar
2002-01-06 19:29 dewar
2002-01-06 18:37 mike stump
2002-01-06 18:24 mike stump
2002-01-06 20:37 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-01-06 21:59 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-06 22:19   ` Jakub Jelinek
2002-01-07  0:09     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-07  1:40       ` Alexandre Oliva
2002-01-06 18:20 mike stump
2002-01-06 13:43 dewar
2002-01-06 13:55 ` Laurent Guerby
2002-01-06 13:41 dewar
2002-01-06 16:58 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-01-06 13:16 dewar
2002-01-06 13:22 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-01-06 13:07 dewar
2002-01-06 13:05 dewar
2002-01-06 13:41 ` Laurent Guerby
2002-01-06  7:56 mike stump
2002-01-06  4:26 dewar
2002-01-06  5:32 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-06 11:09   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-06  0:52 dewar
2002-01-04 22:43 dewar
2002-01-06  3:40 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-04 12:15 dewar
2002-01-04 12:14 dewar
2002-01-03 13:28 dewar
2002-01-04  8:38 ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-04 11:35   ` Joseph S. Myers
2002-01-05 19:25     ` jkl
2002-01-05 19:37       ` Joseph S. Myers
2002-01-05 20:06         ` jkl
2002-01-05 21:42           ` Joseph S. Myers
2002-01-05 20:01       ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-05 20:17         ` jkl
2002-01-05 20:51           ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-06  4:09       ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03 12:51 dewar
2002-01-03 10:35 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-03 10:05 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-03 10:49 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03 11:59   ` Lars Brinkhoff
2002-01-03 23:53   ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-04  9:52     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2002-01-05  6:45     ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-06  0:20       ` Lars Brinkhoff
2002-01-09  9:28   ` Fergus Henderson
2002-01-09 10:58     ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-01-03  0:49 dewar
2002-01-03  0:12 dewar
2002-01-03  0:32 ` jtv
2002-01-06 19:37   ` Alexandre Oliva
2002-01-02 23:53 dewar
2002-01-02 23:59 ` Joe Buck
2002-01-03  3:12 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03 15:45   ` Joe Buck
2002-01-02 17:40 Petr Vandrovec
2002-01-02 22:24 ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-02 22:39   ` Joe Buck
2002-01-02 22:59     ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-03 18:44   ` Alexandre Oliva
2002-01-02 10:02 Bernard Dautrevaux
2002-01-02 23:02 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-02 23:27   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-01 23:03 Momchil Velikov
2002-01-01 23:43 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02  6:54   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-02 15:39     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 15:50       ` Jakub Jelinek
2002-01-02 16:45         ` Paul Koning
2002-01-02 14:56   ` Joseph S. Myers
2002-01-02 22:56   ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-02 23:37     ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-03  2:51     ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03  6:29       ` law
2002-01-03 13:16         ` Lars Brinkhoff
2002-01-04  9:05     ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-04 22:14     ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-02 10:29 ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-02 10:41   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-02 13:11     ` Jakub Jelinek
2002-01-02 15:54       ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 11:28 ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-01-02 11:40   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-02 15:59     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 11:48   ` Alan Cox
2002-01-02 19:09 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 20:13   ` Joe Buck
2002-01-02 20:42     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 21:36   ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-02 22:05     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 22:23       ` jtv
2002-01-02 23:12         ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 23:45           ` jtv
2002-01-03  0:01             ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03  0:07               ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-03  0:16                 ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03  1:12                   ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-03  0:20                 ` jtv
2002-01-03  0:25               ` Alan Cox
2002-01-03  0:35                 ` David Woodhouse
2002-01-03  2:10                   ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03 22:39                     ` Pavel Machek
2002-01-04  9:29                     ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03 15:46                   ` Edgar Toernig
2002-01-03 16:48                     ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-03 17:13                     ` jtv
2002-01-03 21:26                   ` Daniel Jacobowitz
2002-01-03  2:33               ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03  8:32                 ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-03 10:03                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2002-01-03 10:10                 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-03 22:41                   ` Tim Hollebeek
2002-01-04  8:48                   ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-02 22:27       ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-02 22:35         ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 22:44           ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-02 22:50             ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03 22:40         ` Pavel Machek
2002-01-04  8:42           ` Richard Henderson
2002-01-04  8:42   ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-02 23:11 ` Paul Mackerras
2002-01-02 23:26   ` Tom Rini
2002-01-02 23:28   ` Momchil Velikov
2002-01-02 23:34     ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03  0:19       ` jtv
2002-01-03  0:29         ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03  1:03           ` jtv
2002-01-03  1:17             ` Tom Rini
2002-01-03 17:44               ` jtv

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