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From: John Ogness <john.ogness@linutronix.de>
To: Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	bpf@vger.kernel.org, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Nam Cao <namcao@linutronix.de>, Wen Yang <wen.yang@linux.dev>,
	Tobias Schaffner <tobias.schaffner@siemens.com>,
	Viktor Malik <vmalik@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 11:16:25 +0206	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871p9mqcn2.fsf@jogness.linutronix.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b76dfd3e5a118e30ab25910f243db1cbcedc1c00.camel@redhat.com>

On 2026-10-19, Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com> wrote:
>> > We are missing stack traces (which I'd optionally add only on errors)
>> > and perhaps other events (e.g. the -e in either tool if you aren't
>> > only interested in errors/events of the monitor).
>> 
>> I don't see the point of reinventing tools that already do the job
>> well. I do not mind if developers want to create their own tools that
>> provide some small subset of existing features. But I am concerned
>> about removing the in-kernel RV support for ftrace and perf.
>
> That's valid too. We'd need at least the rv tool to start/stop
> monitors in addition to ftrace/perf. Kind of what you already do now
> with sysfs.

I do not expect the rv tool to start/stop ftrace/perf. Nor would I
consider that useful. When I am using ftrace/perf, I am interested in
additionally related events. The rv tool can not know what what else I
need and I do not want the rv tool to become a wrapper for ftrace/perf.

I would use the rv tool only to start the monitor. It would be enough if
the tool would report the bpf_trace:bpf_trace_printk globs that are
needed for the various possible violations. Then, with the monitor
started, I would start ftrace/perf for my own investigations (also
capturing any violation events).

If you want the rv tool to provide some basic stdout data from the
monitors, I am fine with that. That is certainly useful to easily see if
a violation occurred.

But for serious investigations, I really just need the tool to
start/stop the monitor and tell me how to grab the violation events.

> I'm trying to keep this use-case in mind though.

Thank you.

> I assume you aren't interested in the "event" events (transitions in
> the model), those are useful when developing models, at least in
> DA. And those do not trigger a reaction (stdout only for now).

As an RV-monitor _user_ I am not interested in RV state transitions. I
do not know if RV-monitor _developers_ might need that. I would think it
would be useful when debugging RV-monitor false-positives or missed
violations.

@namcao: Maybe you could chime in if you want the transitions as events.

John

  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-19  9:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-10-01 15:20 [PATCH v2 00/15] rv: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] sched: Add task enqueue/dequeue trace points Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:49   ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02  7:09     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 10:29       ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 11:55         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 19:18           ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 19:40             ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-04  7:57             ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:54               ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-04  7:45         ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:49           ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] tools/rv: Skip empty pid error in selftest if command failed Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] rv: Refactor da_trace() functions to get strings internally Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] rv: Cast result of model_get_*_name() Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-13  6:14   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-13  8:15     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14  9:52     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 10:02       ` Nam Cao
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] tools/rv: Move argument parsing from in_kernel to utils Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:25   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] tools/build: Add a feature test for bpftool-btf Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor discovery and listing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor loading and tracing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] tools/rv: Copy stripped bpf_atomic.h from libarena Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:42   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-07 12:59   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-08  9:00     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-08 11:16       ` Nam Cao
2026-10-09 10:09         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-11  0:43           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12  7:43             ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-06 13:29   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-08  9:54     ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-16 18:32       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-16 19:20         ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 10:42           ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 15:17             ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 16:09               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-17 16:56                 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 23:25                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-18 12:10                     ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  9:05                       ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19  9:27                         ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  9:46                           ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 13:16                           ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-19 10:01                         ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 10:43                           ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 11:05                             ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 12:47                               ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 13:05                                 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 13:02                               ` John Ogness
2026-10-19  8:33               ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19  9:10                 ` John Ogness [this message]
2026-10-19 10:48                   ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 12:51                   ` Nam Cao
2026-10-19 13:14                     ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 10:48         ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] tools/rv: Define CONFIG_X86_64 statically for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] tools/rv: Add reactors support to " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] verification/rvgen: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:25   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] tools/rv: Add selftest for rv bpf monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02  0:43   ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] verification/rvgen: Add selftest for rvgen -b Gabriele Monaco

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