From: Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com>
To: John Ogness <john.ogness@linutronix.de>,
Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Cc: Nam Cao <namcao@linutronix.de>, Wen Yang <wen.yang@linux.dev>,
Tobias Schaffner <tobias.schaffner@siemens.com>,
Viktor Malik <vmalik@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 10:33:51 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <b76dfd3e5a118e30ab25910f243db1cbcedc1c00.camel@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87bj8s8ih9.fsf@jogness.linutronix.de>
On Sat, 2026-10-17 at 17:23 +0206, John Ogness wrote:
> On 2026-10-17, Gabriele Monaco <gmonaco@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > I am still not clear how the rv tool will replace the existing
> > > in-kernel implementation. Right now violations call printk(), which
> > > conveniently show up in kernel logs and consoles. More importantly,
> > > there are the rtapp violation events, which makes it very easy to use
> > > ftrace and perf features to record traces, take actions, generate
> > > statistics, and dump backtraces on violations.
> >
> > The plan is to keep everything you'd now do with perf/ftrace as plain
> > stdout of the RV tool. Right now you can see the same ftrace output
> > using rv mon <monitor> -t for in-kernel monitors (only deterministic
> > automata).
>
> IMHO it would be a pity to lose support for ftrace/perf. I use these
> tools extensively for my daily work evaluating real-time systems. Having
> the rtapp RVmon integrated allows me to easily and naturally extend my
> workflow to include rtapp violations. Plain stdout is hardly a
> replacement for trace recordings that can be imported into existing
> visualization and analysis tools.
Yeah that's a good point. And the trace-printk can only improve this to some
extent. Thought that alone can get you stack traces for free.
I think no matter what we choose now, having extensible reactors allows to
easily add new violation actions down the road, if we see it necessary.
> > We are missing stack traces (which I'd optionally add only on errors)
> > and perhaps other events (e.g. the -e in either tool if you aren't
> > only interested in errors/events of the monitor).
>
> I don't see the point of reinventing tools that already do the job
> well. I do not mind if developers want to create their own tools that
> provide some small subset of existing features. But I am concerned about
> removing the in-kernel RV support for ftrace and perf.
That's valid too. We'd need at least the rv tool to start/stop monitors in
addition to ftrace/perf. Kind of what you already do now with sysfs.
I'm trying to keep this use-case in mind though.
I assume you aren't interested in the "event" events (transitions in the model),
those are useful when developing models, at least in DA. And those do not
trigger a reaction (stdout only for now).
Thanks,
Gabriele
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-10-19 8:33 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-10-01 15:20 [PATCH v2 00/15] rv: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 01/15] sched: Add task enqueue/dequeue trace points Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 7:09 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 10:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 11:55 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 19:18 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 19:40 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-04 7:57 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:54 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-04 7:45 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 11:49 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 02/15] tools/rv: Skip empty pid error in selftest if command failed Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 03/15] rv: Refactor da_trace() functions to get strings internally Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 04/15] rv: Cast result of model_get_*_name() Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-13 6:14 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-13 8:15 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 9:52 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-14 10:02 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 05/15] tools/rv: Move argument parsing from in_kernel to utils Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:25 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 06/15] tools/build: Add a feature test for bpftool-btf Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 07/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor discovery and listing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 08/15] tools/rv: Implement BPF monitor loading and tracing Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 09/15] tools/rv: Copy stripped bpf_atomic.h from libarena Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:42 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-07 12:59 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-08 9:00 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-08 11:16 ` Nam Cao
2026-10-09 10:09 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-11 0:43 ` Steven Rostedt
2026-10-12 7:43 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 10/15] tools/rv: Add BPF monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-06 13:29 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-08 9:54 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-16 18:32 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-16 19:20 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 10:42 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 15:17 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 16:09 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-17 16:56 ` John Ogness
2026-10-17 23:25 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2026-10-18 12:10 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 9:05 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 9:27 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 9:46 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 10:01 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 10:43 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-19 11:05 ` Tomas Glozar
2026-10-19 8:33 ` Gabriele Monaco [this message]
2026-10-19 9:10 ` John Ogness
2026-10-19 10:48 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-17 10:48 ` Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 11/15] tools/rv: Define CONFIG_X86_64 statically for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 12/15] tools/rv: Add reactors support to " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 13/15] verification/rvgen: Add support for " Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:25 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 14/15] tools/rv: Add selftest for rv bpf monitors Gabriele Monaco
2026-10-02 0:43 ` bot+bpf-ci
2026-10-01 15:20 ` [PATCH v2 15/15] verification/rvgen: Add selftest for rvgen -b Gabriele Monaco
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