mirror of https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: sean <seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
To: jonathan@jonmasters.org
Cc: jonmasters@gmail.com, anshu.pg@gmail.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [future of drivers?] a proposal for binary drivers.
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:20 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03885459DFC95D073D483EAEE10@CEZ.ICE> (raw)
Message-ID: <20060313223520.113bc6d0.seanlkml@sympatico.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <35fb2e590603131902i66afe836y6653a20405bc5818@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:02:12 +0000
"Jon Masters" <jonmasters@gmail.com> wrote:

> It strikes me that this thread isn't really about binary-only drivers
> and that whole ugly discussion. What it's really about is getting
> third party drivers to work with Linux more easily. That conversation
> does involve the "out of tree vs. upstream" question, but mention of
> binary-only drivers actually only serves to cloud the real issue here.

But that debate has been settled.   The only possible solution to making 
3rd party drivers easier to use is to make a stable driver-ABI.  And the
reason that isn't going to happen has been explained many times already.

Linux is designed around having all drivers in the source tree, which 
removes the problems experienced by out-of-tree drivers.  The pain felt
by those promoting and using 3rd party drivers is brought on _themselves_
by being unable or unwilling to adapt to the Linux environment.

Demanding that Linux adapt to the needs of 3rd party drivers ignores 
the fact that this will just shift the pain onto the core kernel
developers.   That pain would ultimately be felt by all Linux users 
who would then get a kernel which is artifically constrained by all 
these old interfaces.  It would destroy one of the key advantages open
source offerings have over the closed source.   In other words, it
would do more harm than good.

In the end, most of the demands for Linux to "adapt" come from people 
who really don't appreciate or embrace open source.   I think kernel
developers are protecting Linux (and thus its users) by ignoring these
often vitriolic demands for it to conform to the way things are done
in the closed source world.

Cheers,
Sean

  reply	other threads:[~2006-03-14  3:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-03-08  9:35 Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-08  9:51 ` Jan Knutar
2006-03-08 10:03   ` Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-08 10:23     ` Martin Mares
2006-03-08 14:34       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-03-08 11:11     ` Jan Knutar
2006-03-08 13:07       ` Diego Calleja
2006-03-09 15:17       ` Luke-Jr
2006-03-09 16:22         ` Phillip Susi
2006-03-09 16:56         ` Michael Concannon
2006-03-09  9:21     ` Helge Hafting
2006-03-10  8:03     ` Matthias Andree
2006-03-13 23:06     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-03-14  0:00       ` David Schwartz
2006-03-15  0:50       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-03-15  9:18         ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-03-08 19:41   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-03-08  9:57 ` Xavier Bestel
2006-03-08 10:27 ` Al Viro
2006-03-08 10:52   ` Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-08 10:55     ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-08 11:02       ` Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-14  3:02         ` Jon Masters
     [not found]           ` <20060313223520.113bc6d0.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-03-14  3:35             ` sean [this message]
2006-03-08 11:40     ` Matthias Schniedermeyer
2006-03-08 12:00       ` Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-09 15:32       ` Rik van Riel
2006-03-08 14:59     ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-08 21:54       ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-03-09  4:41       ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 10:02         ` Dave Airlie
2006-03-09 10:42           ` Rudolf Randal
2006-03-09 11:22             ` DervishD
2006-03-09 12:13               ` Andreas Mohr
2006-03-09 18:34               ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-03-10  8:19                 ` DervishD
2006-03-09 22:04           ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 11:41         ` Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker
2006-03-09 22:12           ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 15:13         ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-09 22:11           ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 23:30             ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-10  1:04               ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09  9:26     ` Helge Hafting
2006-03-09 15:09 ` Luke-Jr
2006-03-09 16:29   ` Phillip Susi
2006-03-09 16:49     ` Olivier Galibert
2006-03-09 17:33     ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-09 18:25       ` Xavier Bestel
2006-03-09 20:22         ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-09 21:32           ` marty fouts
2006-03-11  0:54           ` Eduard Bloch
2006-03-11  1:01             ` Jan Knutar
2006-03-11  9:16             ` DervishD
2006-03-11  9:52               ` Eduard Bloch
2006-03-11 11:43               ` David Schwartz
2006-03-11 12:07                 ` DervishD
2006-03-12 17:09                 ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-13  2:19                   ` David Schwartz
2006-03-13 16:16                     ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-13 21:57                       ` David Schwartz
2006-03-14 13:30                         ` Helge Hafting
2006-03-12  3:57             ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-13  5:16               ` David Schwartz
2006-03-13  5:25                 ` David Schwartz
2006-03-13  8:20                 ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-03-13 21:57                   ` David Schwartz
     [not found]                     ` <20060314032447.6be9af0a.seanlkml@sympatico.ca>
2006-03-14  8:24                       ` sean
2006-03-14 10:46                         ` David Schwartz
2006-03-14 21:42                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-03-13  9:24                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-03-13 17:16                   ` Lee Revell
2006-03-13 22:08                     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-03-13 21:57                   ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 20:15       ` Phillip Susi
2006-03-09 21:30         ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-09 22:06           ` Lee Revell
2006-03-10  2:57           ` Phillip Susi
2006-03-10  4:25             ` David Schwartz
2006-03-09 22:21       ` David Schwartz
2006-03-08 21:28 Tim Tassonis
2006-03-08 21:32 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-03-09  0:20 ` Jan Knutar
2006-03-13 11:17   ` Helge Hafting
2006-03-13 15:19     ` Anshuman Gholap
2006-03-13 15:53       ` Dave Neuer
2006-03-13  6:02 Matt Reuther
2006-03-13  9:08 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2006-03-13 22:00 ` David Schwartz
2006-03-13 22:32   ` Lee Revell
2006-03-14  0:02     ` David Schwartz
2006-03-13 19:00 Tim Tassonis
2006-03-13 19:15 ` Lee Revell
2006-03-13 19:25   ` Tim Tassonis
2006-03-13 19:31     ` Lee Revell
2006-03-13 19:46       ` Tim Tassonis
2006-03-13 23:06   ` Bernd Petrovitsch

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=BAYC1-PASMTP03885459DFC95D073D483EAEE10@CEZ.ICE \
    --to=seanlkml@sympatico.ca \
    --cc=anshu.pg@gmail.com \
    --cc=jonathan@jonmasters.org \
    --cc=jonmasters@gmail.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox

all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®