From: "David Schwartz" <davids@webmaster.com>
To: "Linux-Kernel@Vger. Kernel. Org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: Binary Drivers
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 23:19:09 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKOEMLAIAC.davids@webmaster.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <7b69d1470612221414h7bca6dd3x89f52be55a47746d@mail.gmail.com>
> Two of the specific arguments I've heard are (a) that the board (and
> its hardware interfaces that the documentation would describe) involve
> IP licensed from a third party, which the board manufacturer does not
> have a legal right to disclose,
If they can't disclose it, they can't sell it. If they can't sell it, it's
fraud to tell someone that they can buy it. If a contract with a third party
limits your ability to sell something to someone, you have to *tell* *them*
that they do not get all of the rights of ownership because you don't own
some of them and hence can't transfer them.
If I can't tell you what you're buying, I can't sell it to you. It's really
that simple. I might be able to make some kind of agreement with you that's
something like a sale, but it is not a normal sale and you are not buying
the expected type of ownership. To claim it's a sale is fraud.
> or (b) that there is, in fact, no
> suitable documentation, because the boards are developed somewhat
> fluidly and the driver is developed directly from low-level knowledge
> that simply isn't written down in a form suitable for passing on.
You can't sell something that doesn't exist. If you sell a car even though
you can't explain how anyone could drive it, that's fraud. A person who buys
something is entitled to be told how to operate it and make it work (and not
just the one way you think they should use it, they have the right to use it
any way they want if the transaction is a normal sale including all rights).
If you can't tell them that, then they are not actually buying all of the
thing.
> If you're building products with no expectation of supporting outside
> driver developers, both of those are quite possible.
And they're both quite fraudulent. You cannot both sell something and keep
its construction a secret. A person who owns something has a right to be
told what they're buying. If you are only selling some of the rights that
normally come with buying something, you cannot claim you are selling it
free and clear.
As I said before, this same thing used to happen with cell phones. I bought
a Primeco phone, fully believing that I fully owned it. However, Primeco
refused to tell me the code to unlock the phone, demanding $200 to do so.
That's simply fraud -- if I fully own the phone, free and clear, they have
no right to sell access to it to me. You can't sell the car and then charge
for the keys.
DS
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-12-23 7:19 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-12-21 21:15 Niklas Steinkamp
2006-12-22 19:22 ` Rok Markovic
2006-12-22 22:00 ` Wolfgang Draxinger
2006-12-22 22:14 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-23 7:19 ` David Schwartz [this message]
2006-12-23 23:11 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-24 6:46 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-24 13:31 ` Wolfgang Draxinger
2006-12-24 17:33 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-24 19:27 ` James C Georgas
2006-12-24 21:05 ` Rok Markovic
2006-12-25 0:09 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-24 20:20 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-25 0:30 ` Wolfgang Draxinger
2006-12-26 0:20 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-26 2:49 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-26 6:31 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-26 19:20 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-26 19:53 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-27 1:20 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-28 13:32 ` Pavel Machek
[not found] <28wj.2xb.21@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7wu47-3dV-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-12-27 11:55 ` Nikolaos D. Bougalis
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-12-26 11:20 Martin Knoblauch
2006-12-26 13:28 ` James C Georgas
2006-12-26 13:57 ` Martin Knoblauch
2006-12-26 16:37 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-28 8:59 ` Rok Markovic
2006-12-28 9:07 ` Trent Waddington
2006-12-28 22:32 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-28 22:34 ` David Lang
2006-12-26 19:12 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-26 23:37 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-26 11:13 Martin Knoblauch
2006-12-26 11:33 ` Trent Waddington
2006-12-26 14:04 ` Martin Knoblauch
[not found] <fa.a8+7qGNMZNO6YbgTojLj7poBcEU@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.whH2sDigxYlZmzC0pHJ6ew9w3Is@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.YLpcIfSTbYXcChK98VmCgG/OEAI@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.m5y0sm7/G8Fnz1bRfMDgwNw+YI4@ifi.uio.no>
2006-12-22 21:27 ` Robert Hancock
2006-12-22 23:15 ` Nikolaos D. Bougalis
[not found] <7ssWL-8rd-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7sE1N-2Y4-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <7t39Q-Ru-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-12-21 12:33 ` Nikolaos D. Bougalis
2006-12-15 21:20 James Porter
2006-12-15 21:59 ` Alan
2006-12-15 22:00 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-18 14:31 ` Lennart Sorensen
2006-12-15 22:01 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2006-12-16 1:57 ` Tomas Carnecky
2006-12-16 18:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-12-18 14:34 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-21 16:33 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-21 17:43 ` Erik Mouw
2006-12-21 19:10 ` Tomas Carnecky
[not found] ` <f0e2c5070612211120wa6e3402p2ffb6e1d579a485a@mail.gmail.com>
2006-12-21 19:42 ` Tomas Carnecky
2006-12-21 22:36 ` Dave Neuer
2006-12-21 20:32 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-21 20:18 ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-12-21 22:02 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-21 20:50 ` David Schwartz
2006-12-21 20:58 ` David Lang
2006-12-21 21:20 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-21 22:12 ` Scott Preece
2006-12-21 23:20 ` Martin Mares
2006-12-22 0:38 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-12-22 9:47 ` Wolfgang Draxinger
2006-12-23 1:04 ` Horst H. von Brand
2006-12-16 3:56 ` jdow
2006-12-16 4:59 ` Dave Airlie
2006-12-17 11:44 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-12-16 8:08 ` Pavel Machek
2006-12-16 9:07 ` Marek Wawrzyczny
2006-12-17 12:17 ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-12-18 9:51 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=MDEHLPKNGKAHNMBLJOLKOEMLAIAC.davids@webmaster.com \
--to=davids@webmaster.com \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox
all inboxes | Powered by JetHome®