From: Qais Yousef <qyousef@layalina.io>
To: "Chen, Yu C" <yu.c.chen@intel.com>
Cc: Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>,
Vern Hao <vernhao@tencent.com>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
K Prateek Nayak <kprateek.nayak@amd.com>,
Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>, Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Valentin Schneider <vschneid@redhat.com>,
Madadi Vineeth Reddy <vineethr@linux.ibm.com>,
Hillf Danton <hdanton@sina.com>,
Shrikanth Hegde <sshegde@linux.ibm.com>,
Jianyong Wu <jianyong.wu@outlook.com>,
Yangyu Chen <cyy@cyyself.name>,
Tingyin Duan <tingyin.duan@gmail.com>,
Vern Hao <haoxing990@gmail.com>, Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>,
Aubrey Li <aubrey.li@intel.com>, Zhao Liu <zhao1.liu@intel.com>,
Adam Li <adamli@os.amperecomputing.com>,
Aaron Lu <ziqianlu@bytedance.com>,
Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@intel.com>, Josh Don <joshdon@google.com>,
Gavin Guo <gavinguo@igalia.com>,
Libo Chen <libchen@purestorage.com>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Patch v4 00/22] Cache aware scheduling
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2026 01:05:42 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20260425000542.7jibicb2bkxg7ww7@airbuntu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d5d69565-38fd-450d-88e5-44b40e347b7a@intel.com>
On 04/24/26 00:48, Chen, Yu C wrote:
> On 4/23/2026 11:06 PM, Qais Yousef wrote:
> > On 04/21/26 13:57, Tim Chen wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2026-04-21 at 01:34 +0100, Qais Yousef wrote:
> > > > On 04/20/26 17:01, Chen, Yu C wrote:
> > > > > On 4/16/2026 8:27 AM, Qais Yousef wrote:
> > > > > > On 04/01/26 14:52, Tim Chen wrote:
> > > > >
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > > > I suppose there are two scenarios. The first is enabling/disabling
> > > > > aggregation
> > > > > for a group of tasks, and the second is task tagging. For the first
> > > > > scenario,
> > > > > this can be applied either process-wide or cgroup-wide by providing a flag,
> > > >
> > > > Cgroup-wide tagging doesn't make sense IMO. Process-wide yes.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think this depends on the usage scenario. In private discussion with
> > > Vern from Tencent, he mentioned that such a cgroup based tagging is useful for them.
> >
> > We all want ponies :)
> >
> > I think this needs a why. It doesn't make sense to group procsses in general.
> > It seems this requirement is tied to elaborate setup to force the kernel to
> > deal with this elaborate setup in a generic manner.
>
> Using cgroup tagging appears to be a trade-off intended to reduce users'
> overhead from interface migration. Based on feedback from several cloud
> providers (Vern, please correct me if my understanding is wrong),
> cgroups are the basic unit for infrastructure construction:
> there could be a large process with N threads: N/2 of them
> are assigned to cgroup1, and the remaining N/2 to cgroup2.
Ah so the problem is single large process. Shouldn't the kernel manage that and
split into LLCs automatically as part of its best effort?
I don't think there's any migration cost for tagging a whole process. It is
just wasting resources. Those who want to squeeze more, they have the option to
do better, but don't have to.
> Updating the attributes associated with a cgroup is
> straightforward - using process-based aggregation might not work
Why not? wake up or LB based, we should be able to see a process has loaded an
LLC and spill to another LLC, no?
> for this scenario - using task-based aggregation would require to
> re-write the mid-layer.
As mentioned above, this is the smartest opportunity to squeeze more out of the
system. It will require more work yes, but totally optional too.
>
> >
> > Anyway with the tagging approach we can easily allow process level LLC sharing
> > via simple description like
> >
> > // shared cookie definition
> > {
> > "WEB_SERVICE_COOKIE": [ "nginx", "postgresql"],
> > "TRANSCODING_COOKIE": [ "decoder", "encoder"]
> > }
> >
> > Which simply tell the utility to reuse the cookie for these processes using the
> > key as a unique identifier.
> >
> > By the way, cookie generation might need kernel help to create a unique id.
> >
> > Still, if someone wants such elaborate setup the first thing to suggest is
> > static portioning via cpuset. Do you know why this is not sufficient?
>
> I suppose it is because the admin want a high system utilization by
> mixing latency-sensitive tasks and batch tasks together to share the
> CPU resource. Using cpuset to isolate them might bring lower utilization.
Hmm yes I get and advocate that. I just don't get it if the request is to tag
multiple process to share LLC. This is not cache aware scheduling, this is
a partitioning problem.
Note we want to use the concept to help with co-locating tasks in a single LLC
to take advantage of bigger L2. Currently it seems the approach is hardwired to
a particular need.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-04-25 0:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 72+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-04-01 21:52 Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 01/22] sched/cache: Introduce infrastructure for cache-aware load balancing Tim Chen
2026-04-09 12:41 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-09 19:21 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-09 23:00 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-10 6:30 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-15 2:06 ` Vern Hao
2026-04-15 3:34 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-09-14 17:50 ` Zenghui Yu
2026-09-14 23:12 ` Tim Chen
2026-09-18 7:14 ` Zenghui Yu
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 02/22] sched/cache: Limit the scan number of CPUs when calculating task occupancy Tim Chen
2026-04-09 13:17 ` Luo Gengkun
2026-04-09 13:41 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-10 10:12 ` Luo Gengkun
2026-04-10 7:29 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-10 10:20 ` Luo Gengkun
2026-04-10 17:12 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-10 17:27 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-13 7:23 ` [RFC PATCH] sched/fair: dynamically scale the period of cache work Jianyong Wu
2026-04-13 8:38 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-13 11:27 ` Jianyong Wu
2026-04-15 3:31 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-16 3:39 ` Jianyong Wu
2026-04-15 17:22 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-16 6:50 ` Jianyong Wu
2026-04-14 15:07 ` [PATCH v2] sched/cache: Reduce the overhead of task_cache_work by only scan the visisted cpus Luo Gengkun
2026-04-15 3:10 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-18 9:01 ` Luo Gengkun
2026-04-20 7:53 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-23 8:54 ` [PATCH v3] " Luo Gengkun
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 03/22] sched/cache: Record per LLC utilization to guide cache aware scheduling decisions Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 04/22] sched/cache: Introduce helper functions to enforce LLC migration policy Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 05/22] sched/cache: Make LLC id continuous Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 06/22] sched/cache: Assign preferred LLC ID to processes Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 07/22] sched/cache: Track LLC-preferred tasks per runqueue Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 08/22] sched/cache: Introduce per CPU's tasks LLC preference counter Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 09/22] sched/cache: Calculate the percpu sd task LLC preference Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 10/22] sched/cache: Count tasks prefering destination LLC in a sched group Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 11/22] sched/cache: Check local_group only once in update_sg_lb_stats() Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 12/22] sched/cache: Prioritize tasks preferring destination LLC during balancing Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 13/22] sched/cache: Add migrate_llc_task migration type for cache-aware balancing Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 14/22] sched/cache: Handle moving single tasks to/from their preferred LLC Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 15/22] sched/cache: Respect LLC preference in task migration and detach Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 16/22] sched/cache: Disable cache aware scheduling for processes with high thread counts Tim Chen
2026-04-09 12:43 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-09 19:27 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 17/22] sched/cache: Avoid cache-aware scheduling for memory-heavy processes Tim Chen
2026-04-09 12:46 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-09 12:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-10 8:59 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-10 9:20 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 18/22] sched/cache: Enable cache aware scheduling for multi LLCs NUMA node Tim Chen
2026-04-09 13:37 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-09 19:39 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 19/22] sched/cache: Allow the user space to turn on and off cache aware scheduling Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 20/22] sched/cache: Add user control to adjust the aggressiveness of cache-aware scheduling Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 21/22] -- DO NOT APPLY!!! -- sched/cache/debug: Display the per LLC occupancy for each process via proc fs Tim Chen
2026-04-01 21:52 ` [Patch v4 22/22] -- DO NOT APPLY!!! -- sched/cache/debug: Add ftrace to track the load balance statistics Tim Chen
2026-04-09 13:54 ` [Patch v4 00/22] Cache aware scheduling Peter Zijlstra
2026-04-09 20:02 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-14 3:20 ` Duan Tingyin
2026-04-15 17:35 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-16 0:27 ` Qais Yousef
2026-04-20 9:01 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-21 0:34 ` Qais Yousef
2026-04-21 20:57 ` Tim Chen
2026-04-23 15:06 ` Qais Yousef
2026-04-23 16:48 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-25 0:05 ` Qais Yousef [this message]
2026-04-23 17:17 ` Chen, Yu C
2026-04-25 0:14 ` Qais Yousef
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