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From: Gregory Price <gourry@gourry.net>
To: Chris Li <chrisl@kernel.org>
Cc: "Johannes Weiner" <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	"Baoquan He" <baoquan.he@linux.dev>,
	"Nhat Pham" <nphamcs@gmail.com>,
	"Kairui Song" <kasong@tencent.com>,
	"Michal Hocko" <mhocko@kernel.org>,
	"Roman Gushchin" <roman.gushchin@linux.dev>,
	"Shakeel Butt" <shakeel.butt@linux.dev>,
	"Yosry Ahmed" <yosry@kernel.org>,
	"David Hildenbrand" <david@kernel.org>,
	"Muchun Song" <muchun.song@linux.dev>,
	"Kemeng Shi" <shikemeng@huaweicloud.com>,
	"Barry Song" <baohua@kernel.org>,
	"YoungJun Park" <youngjun.park@lge.com>,
	"Chengming Zhou" <chengming.zhou@linux.dev>,
	"Lorenzo Stoakes (Oracle)" <ljs@kernel.org>,
	"Liam R. Howlett" <liam@infradead.org>,
	"Vlastimil Babka (SUSE)" <vbabka@kernel.org>,
	"Mike Rapoport" <rppt@kernel.org>,
	"Suren Baghdasaryan" <surenb@google.com>,
	"Qi Zheng" <qi.zheng@linux.dev>,
	"Axel Rasmussen" <axelrasmussen@google.com>,
	"Yuanchu Xie" <yuanchu@google.com>, "Wei Xu" <weixugc@google.com>,
	"Rik van Riel" <riel@surriel.com>,
	"Wenchao Hao" <haowenchao22@gmail.com>,
	"Jonathan Corbet" <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"Hugh Dickins" <hughd@google.com>,
	"Baolin Wang" <baolin.wang@linux.alibaba.com>,
	"Tejun Heo" <tj@kernel.org>, "Michal Koutný" <mkoutny@suse.com>,
	"Shuah Khan" <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Kunwu Chan" <kunwu.chan@linux.dev>,
	"Meta kernel team" <kernel-team@meta.com>,
	"Linux Memory Management List" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	"open list:CONTROL GROUP - MEMORY RESOURCE CONTROLLER (MEMCG)"
	<cgroups@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Kairui Song" <ryncsn@gmail.com>,
	"Joshua Hahn" <joshua.hahnjy@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Path forward for Virtualized Swap?
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 12:08:11 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <aq6cVXPLUUwJA7-2@gourry-fedora-PF4VCD3F> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CACePvbUG1ApMzMdEzf-63rpjgGVNsRk21pT72OQGJpM=OtRUew@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Sep 19, 2026 at 03:45:03AM -0500, Chris Li wrote:
> 
> I found this new concept of "compression space" very confusing to me.
> Can you explain the swap behavior and problem using only normal memory
> usage reduction and latency without introducing a new term or new
> metrics?
> 
> The normal user doesn't even know what compression space is, let alone
> what makes it transparent.
>

Sure they do - it's the amount of memory consumed by compressed data,
including the metadata associated with it.

converting Johannes statement to diagram:

>> Compression space is not a separate resource. It's page tables,
>> backing pages, and swap descriptors. It's just MEMORY. 

                          Page Data (PD)
  [page tables][                uncompressed page                  ]


                        Compressed Data (CD)
  [      recovered space     ][pte][swap meta data][compressed page]
                              |                                    |
                              |---------compression space----------|


                        Memory Pre-Compression
 |[  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ][  PD  ]|


			Memory Post-Compression
 |[CD][CD][CD][CD][CD][CD][CD][CD]-------- free space ------------|
   ^----------------------------^
         Compression Space


It's actually really confusing to represent this space as a traditional
swap device - built on the assumption of a pre-defined size limit - when
that size limit has already been defined (the memory itself).

Baking any kind of pre-defined limit *into the infrastructure* (whether for
an optimization or ease of implementation) is what requires users to know
what compression space is.

Even using memory capacity at boot as a limit is wrong - hotplug exists.

> Why does the user need to care about compression space again?

They shouldn't need to, that's very much the point.

~Gregory

  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-19 16:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 47+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-04 21:14 Nhat Pham
2026-09-07  5:51 ` Kairui Song
2026-09-08 16:36   ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-11 16:09     ` Kairui Song
2026-09-11 16:57       ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-11 18:14         ` Kairui Song
2026-09-11 19:03           ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-12  8:47             ` Kairui Song
2026-09-14 16:49               ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-08 18:30   ` Johannes Weiner
2026-09-09 16:41     ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-09 17:47       ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-12  9:00       ` Kairui Song
2026-09-12 11:51         ` Johannes Weiner
2026-09-19  7:23           ` Chris Li
2026-09-20  1:06             ` Rik van Riel
2026-09-14 16:10         ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-10 23:27   ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-07 11:30 ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-08 16:45   ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-10 10:56     ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-10 16:22       ` Nhat Pham
2026-09-10 17:57         ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-11 16:20         ` Kairui Song
2026-09-11 16:56           ` David Hildenbrand (Arm)
2026-09-14 15:00           ` Baoquan He
2026-09-19  6:50             ` Chris Li
2026-09-10  7:09 ` Baoquan He
2026-09-10 16:39   ` Shakeel Butt
2026-09-11 13:06     ` Baoquan He
2026-09-11 16:45       ` Shakeel Butt
2026-09-15  5:48         ` Baoquan He
2026-09-15  6:44           ` Baoquan He
2026-09-19  6:55             ` Chris Li
2026-09-19 16:15               ` Rik van Riel
2026-09-19 21:21                 ` Chris Li
2026-09-19 22:50                   ` Rik van Riel
2026-09-19  7:07           ` Chris Li
2026-09-10 17:03   ` Johannes Weiner
2026-09-11 12:27     ` Baoquan He
2026-09-11 16:21       ` Johannes Weiner
2026-09-19  8:45     ` Chris Li
2026-09-19 16:08       ` Gregory Price [this message]
2026-09-19 19:02         ` Chris Li
2026-09-20  1:14           ` Rik van Riel
2026-09-20  1:53           ` Gregory Price
2026-09-10 17:16   ` Nhat Pham

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