From: Florian Weimer <Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Journaling pointless with today's hard disks?
Date: 24 Nov 2001 14:03:11 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <tgpu68gw34.fsf@mercury.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> (raw)
In the German computer community, a statement from IBM[1] is
circulating which describes a rather peculiar behavior of certain IBM
IDE hard drivers (the DTLA series):
When the drive is powered down during a write operation, the sector
which was being written has got an incorrect checksum stored on disk.
So far, so good---but if the sector is read later, the drive returns a
*permanent*, *hard* error, which can only be removed by a low-level
format (IBM provides a tool for it). The drive does not automatically
map out such sectors.
IBM claims this isn't a firmware error, but thinks that this explains
the failures frequently observed with DTLA drivers (which might
reflect reality or not, I don't know, but that's not the point
anyway).
Now my question: Obviously, journaling file systems do not work
correctly on drivers with such behavior. In contrast, a vital data
structure is frequently written to (the journal), so such file systems
*increase* the probability of complete failure (with a bad sector in
the journal, the file system is probably unusable; for non-journaling
file systems, only a part of the data becomes unavailable). Is the
DTLA hard disk behavior regarding aborted writes more common among
contemporary hard drives? Wouldn't this make journaling pretty
pointless?
1. http://www.cooling-solutions.de/dtla-faq (German)
--
Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@RUS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE
University of Stuttgart http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/
RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898
next reply other threads:[~2001-11-24 13:03 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.1006644421.6553.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2001-11-24 13:03 ` Florian Weimer [this message]
2001-11-24 13:40 ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-24 16:36 ` Phil Howard
2001-11-24 17:19 ` Charles Marslett
2001-11-24 17:31 ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-24 17:41 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-24 19:20 ` Florian Weimer
2001-11-24 19:29 ` Rik van Riel
2001-11-24 22:51 ` John Alvord
2001-11-24 23:41 ` Phil Howard
2001-11-25 0:24 ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-25 0:53 ` Phil Howard
2001-11-25 1:25 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-25 1:44 ` Sven.Riedel
2001-11-24 22:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-25 4:49 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-24 23:04 ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
2001-11-24 23:23 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-24 23:29 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-26 18:05 ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 23:49 ` Martin Eriksson
2001-11-27 0:06 ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27 0:16 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-27 7:38 ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27 11:48 ` Ville Herva
2001-11-27 0:18 ` Jonathan Lundell
2001-11-27 1:01 ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-27 1:33 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 1:57 ` Steve Underwood
2001-11-27 5:04 ` Stephen Satchell
2001-11-25 4:20 ` Pete Zaitcev
2001-11-25 12:30 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-25 15:04 ` Barry K. Nathan
2001-11-25 16:31 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 2:39 ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-03 10:23 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-25 9:14 ` Chris Wedgwood
2001-11-25 22:55 ` Daniel Phillips
2001-11-26 16:59 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-26 20:30 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-26 20:35 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-26 23:59 ` Andreas Dilger
2001-11-27 0:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 0:52 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 1:11 ` Andrew Morton
2001-11-27 1:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 16:59 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 16:56 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 1:23 ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-26 23:00 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27 2:41 ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 0:19 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27 23:35 ` Andreas Bombe
2001-11-28 14:32 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-27 3:39 ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-27 7:03 ` Ville Herva
2001-11-27 16:50 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 20:31 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-28 18:43 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-28 18:46 ` Rob Landley
2001-11-28 22:19 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-29 22:21 ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-01 10:55 ` Jeff V. Merkey
2001-12-02 0:08 ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-03 20:04 ` Pavel Machek
2001-11-26 20:53 ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-11-26 21:18 ` Journaling pointless with today's hard disks? [wandering OT] Rob Landley
2001-11-27 0:32 ` Journaling pointless with today's hard disks? H. Peter Anvin
2001-11-27 16:39 ` Matthias Andree
2001-11-27 17:42 ` Martin Eriksson
2001-11-28 16:35 ` Ian Stirling
2001-11-26 17:14 ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 20:36 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-26 21:14 ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-26 21:36 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-27 16:36 ` Steve Brueggeman
2001-11-27 20:04 ` Bill Davidsen
2001-11-27 21:28 ` Wayne Whitney
2001-11-27 21:52 ` Andre Hedrick
2001-11-28 11:53 ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
2001-11-25 13:52 ` Pedro M. Rodrigues
2001-11-28 23:25 Frank de Lange
2001-11-29 1:52 ` Matthias Andree
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-11-28 17:22 David Balazic
2001-11-28 14:36 Galappatti, Kishantha
2001-11-25 1:20 dnu478nt5w@mailexpire.com
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