From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@kernel.org>,
stern@rowland.harvard.edu, boqun@kernel.org
Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"Cc: Hyunwoo Kim" <imv4bel@gmail.com>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>,
John Stultz <jstultz@google.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
stable@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch V2 1/8] signal: Prevent exec() race
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2026 14:45:55 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20260909124555.GM776954@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aqFNV4k6DcbyxYCe@localhost.localdomain>
On Wed, Sep 09, 2026 at 02:13:11PM +0200, Frederic Weisbecker wrote:
> > > I argue that's not possible:
> > >
> > > A: sigqueue stores
> > >
> > > B: AQUIRE tasklist
> > >
> > > C: exit_state store
> > >
> > > D: RELEASE tasklist
> > >
> > > E ACQUIRE tasklist
> > > F if (exit_state)
> > > swap_pid()
> > > G STORE_PID
> > >
> > > RELEASE tasklist
> > >
> > > H READ PID
> > > ....
> > > I ACQUIRE siglock
> > Let G' be the unnamed RELEASE after G.
> >
> > Now, I have deleted and rewritten this tail end at least twice now. And
> > I *think* I'm agreeing with you. Let me explain:
> >
> > It all hinges on D-E and H-I.
> >
> > D-E is a UNLOCK+LOCK hand-over, which is not quite the same as
> > RELEASE+ACQUIRE. Specifically, we have:
> >
> > RELEASE+ACQUIRE: RCpc, only the CPUs involved agree on the ordering
> > UNLOCK+LOCK: RCtso, the hand-over is store-ordering
> >
> > So while earlier I was arguing with RCpc in mind, in which case D-E
> > completely goes away and we can consider B-G' to be one big critical
> > section from the PoV of a third CPU (our posix_timer_fn() one). In this
> > case we can push A down and G up and have them cross.
> >
> > *However*, since these are locks, we actually have D-E be UNLOCK+LOCK,
> > which is RCtso and that *does* impose store order, so A stores must
> > happen before G stores
> >
> > Combine with H-I, which has a data dependency from the LOAD to the LOCK
> > and thereby constraints later LOADs, those sigqueue loads that come
> > after I must in fact observe the A stores.
>
> I didn't know about all those UNLOCK+LOCK properties. Well,
> I know that UNLOCK+LOCK on the same lock, or on different locks
> but the same CPU, equals smp_mb() except on powerpc. Which is why
> we have smp_mb__after_unlock_lock(). But what you describe is quite
> different.
>
> Is this something that we should expect litmus to modelize?
IIRC these commits:
6e89e831a901 ("tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire")
ddfe12944e84 ("tools/memory-model: Provide extra ordering for unlock+lock pair on the same CPU")
Were supposed to handle:
CPU0 CPU1
UNLOCK(A)
LOCK(A)
and
CPU0
UNLOCK(A)
LOCK(B)
respectively. I'm forever confused by the actual CAT stuff, nor am I
particularly adept at these litmus things. Boqun, Alan?
> Because the following doesn't verify that:
> ---
> C MP+farfetched
>
> {}
>
> P0(int *next, int *prev, int *exit_state, spinlock_t *tasklist_lock)
> {
> // list_del_init()
> WRITE_ONCE(*next, 1);
> WRITE_ONCE(*prev, 1);
> // exit_notify()
> spin_lock(tasklist_lock);
> WRITE_ONCE(*exit_state, 1);
> spin_unlock(tasklist_lock);
> }
>
> P1(int *exit_state, int *pid, spinlock_t *tasklist_lock)
> {
> int r0;
>
> // de_thread()
> spin_lock(tasklist_lock);
> r0 = READ_ONCE(*exit_state);
> if (r0 == 1) {
> // exchange_tids()
> WRITE_ONCE(*pid, 1);
> }
> spin_unlock(tasklist_lock);
> }
>
> P2(int *next, int *prev, int *pid, spinlock_t *sighand)
> {
> int r0;
> int r1;
> // get target
> r0 = READ_ONCE(*pid);
> spin_lock(sighand);
> // queue signal
> r1 = READ_ONCE(*next);
> if (r1 == 0)
> WRITE_ONCE(*prev, 2);
> spin_unlock(sighand);
> }
>
> exists (prev=1 /\ 2:r0=1) (* Bad outcome. *)
> ---
> herd7 -conf linux-kernel.cfg ~/farfetched.litmus
> Test MP+farfetched Allowed
> States 4
> 2:r0=0; [prev]=1;
> 2:r0=0; [prev]=2;
> 2:r0=1; [prev]=1;
> 2:r0=1; [prev]=2;
> Ok
> Witnesses
> Positive: 2 Negative: 7
> Condition exists ([prev]=1 /\ 2:r0=1)
> Observation MP+farfetched Sometimes 2 7
> Time MP+farfetched 0.02
> Hash=a44733c870613a81ae096a93babe215
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-09 12:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-05 18:58 [patch V2 0/8] exec/exit: POSIX timer related bugfixes and related cleanups Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 1/8] signal: Prevent exec() race Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 13:17 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-06 22:39 ` Eric W. Biederman
2026-09-06 23:28 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 11:26 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-07 12:31 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-07 15:26 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-07 20:15 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-07 22:28 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-08 10:15 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 0:03 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-09 9:17 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 8:04 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 9:08 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 9:55 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 10:20 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 11:31 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 12:13 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 12:45 ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2026-09-09 12:51 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 13:45 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 15:48 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 16:00 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 14:33 ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 14:45 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 19:28 ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 20:49 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 21:11 ` Alan Stern
2026-09-10 13:21 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-10 13:28 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-10 15:26 ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 10:18 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 9:11 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 2/8] exec: Cleanup POSIX timers right after de_thread() Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 13:21 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 22:13 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 3/8] posix-timers: Move posixtimer_exec_cleanup() out of exec.c Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 13:50 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 4/8] posix-timers: Move POSIX timer group exit related code out of do_exit() Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 13:59 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 5/8] posix-cpu-timers: Move inlines out of public header Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 14:00 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 6/8] posix-cpu-timers: Use PF_EXITING to indicate exit Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 7/8] posix-cpu-timers: Prevent enqueueing when PF_EXITING is set Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 16:26 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 12:20 ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 8/8] posix-timers: Handle exit in do_exit() completely Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 16:40 ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 12:27 ` Thomas Gleixner
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