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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Frederic Weisbecker <frederic@kernel.org>,
	stern@rowland.harvard.edu, boqun@kernel.org
Cc: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Cc: Hyunwoo Kim" <imv4bel@gmail.com>,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	Christian Brauner <brauner@kernel.org>,
	John Stultz <jstultz@google.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	stable@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch V2 1/8] signal: Prevent exec() race
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2026 14:45:55 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20260909124555.GM776954@noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <aqFNV4k6DcbyxYCe@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, Sep 09, 2026 at 02:13:11PM +0200, Frederic Weisbecker wrote:

> > > I argue that's not possible:
> > > 
> > > A:   sigqueue stores
> > > 
> > > B:   AQUIRE tasklist
> > > 
> > > C:   exit_state store
> > > 
> > > D:   RELEASE tasklist
> > > 
> > > E                               ACQUIRE tasklist

> > > F                               if (exit_state)
> > > 				    	swap_pid()
> > > G                                   STORE_PID
> > > 
> > > 				      RELEASE tasklist
> > > 
> > > H                                                       READ PID
> > > 							      ....
> > > I                                		              ACQUIRE siglock

> > Let G' be the unnamed RELEASE after G.
> > 
> > Now, I have deleted and rewritten this tail end at least twice now. And
> > I *think* I'm agreeing with you. Let me explain:
> > 
> > It all hinges on D-E and H-I.
> > 
> > D-E is a UNLOCK+LOCK hand-over, which is not quite the same as
> > RELEASE+ACQUIRE. Specifically, we have:
> > 
> >   RELEASE+ACQUIRE: RCpc,  only the CPUs involved agree on the ordering
> >   UNLOCK+LOCK:     RCtso, the hand-over is store-ordering
> > 
> > So while earlier I was arguing with RCpc in mind, in which case D-E
> > completely goes away and we can consider B-G' to be one big critical
> > section from the PoV of a third CPU (our posix_timer_fn() one). In this
> > case we can push A down and G up and have them cross.
> > 
> > *However*, since these are locks, we actually have D-E be UNLOCK+LOCK,
> > which is RCtso and that *does* impose store order, so A stores must
> > happen before G stores
> > 
> > Combine with H-I, which has a data dependency from the LOAD to the LOCK
> > and thereby constraints later LOADs, those sigqueue loads that come
> > after I must in fact observe the A stores.
> 
> I didn't know about all those UNLOCK+LOCK properties. Well,
> I know that UNLOCK+LOCK on the same lock, or on different locks
> but the same CPU, equals smp_mb() except on powerpc. Which is why
> we have smp_mb__after_unlock_lock(). But what you describe is quite
> different.
> 
> Is this something that we should expect litmus to modelize?

IIRC these commits:

6e89e831a901 ("tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire")
ddfe12944e84 ("tools/memory-model: Provide extra ordering for unlock+lock pair on the same CPU")

Were supposed to handle:

	CPU0		CPU1

	UNLOCK(A)
			LOCK(A)

and

	CPU0

	UNLOCK(A)
	LOCK(B)

respectively. I'm forever confused by the actual CAT stuff, nor am I
particularly adept at these litmus things. Boqun, Alan?

> Because the following doesn't verify that:
> ---
> C MP+farfetched
> 
> {}
> 
> P0(int *next, int *prev, int *exit_state, spinlock_t *tasklist_lock)
> {
> 	// list_del_init()
> 	WRITE_ONCE(*next, 1);
> 	WRITE_ONCE(*prev, 1);
> 	// exit_notify()
> 	spin_lock(tasklist_lock);
> 	WRITE_ONCE(*exit_state, 1);
> 	spin_unlock(tasklist_lock);
> }
> 
> P1(int *exit_state, int *pid, spinlock_t *tasklist_lock)
> {
> 	int r0;
> 
> 	// de_thread()
> 	spin_lock(tasklist_lock);
> 	r0 = READ_ONCE(*exit_state);
> 	if (r0 == 1) {
> 		// exchange_tids()
> 		WRITE_ONCE(*pid, 1);
> 	}
> 	spin_unlock(tasklist_lock);
> }
> 
> P2(int *next, int *prev, int *pid, spinlock_t *sighand)
> {
> 	int r0;
> 	int r1;
> 	// get target
> 	r0 = READ_ONCE(*pid);
> 	spin_lock(sighand);
> 	// queue signal
> 	r1 = READ_ONCE(*next);
> 	if (r1 == 0)
> 		WRITE_ONCE(*prev, 2);
> 	spin_unlock(sighand);
> }
> 
> exists (prev=1 /\ 2:r0=1) (* Bad outcome. *)
> ---
> herd7 -conf linux-kernel.cfg ~/farfetched.litmus 
> Test MP+farfetched Allowed
> States 4
> 2:r0=0; [prev]=1;
> 2:r0=0; [prev]=2;
> 2:r0=1; [prev]=1;
> 2:r0=1; [prev]=2;
> Ok
> Witnesses
> Positive: 2 Negative: 7
> Condition exists ([prev]=1 /\ 2:r0=1)
> Observation MP+farfetched Sometimes 2 7
> Time MP+farfetched 0.02
> Hash=a44733c870613a81ae096a93babe215

  reply	other threads:[~2026-09-09 12:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-05 18:58 [patch V2 0/8] exec/exit: POSIX timer related bugfixes and related cleanups Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 1/8] signal: Prevent exec() race Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 13:17   ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-06 22:39   ` Eric W. Biederman
2026-09-06 23:28     ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 11:26     ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-07 12:31   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-07 15:26     ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-07 20:15       ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-07 22:28         ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-08 10:15           ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09  0:03             ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-09  9:17               ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09  8:04             ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09  9:08               ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09  9:55                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 10:20                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 11:31                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 12:13                   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 12:45                     ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2026-09-09 12:51                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-09 13:45                         ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 15:48                           ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 16:00                           ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 14:33                       ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 14:45                       ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09 19:28                         ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 20:49                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-09 21:11                             ` Alan Stern
2026-09-10 13:21                               ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-10 13:28                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-09-10 15:26                                 ` Alan Stern
2026-09-09 10:18                 ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-09  9:11               ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 2/8] exec: Cleanup POSIX timers right after de_thread() Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 13:21   ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 22:13   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 3/8] posix-timers: Move posixtimer_exec_cleanup() out of exec.c Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 13:50   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 4/8] posix-timers: Move POSIX timer group exit related code out of do_exit() Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 13:59   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 5/8] posix-cpu-timers: Move inlines out of public header Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-10 14:00   ` Frederic Weisbecker
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 6/8] posix-cpu-timers: Use PF_EXITING to indicate exit Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 7/8] posix-cpu-timers: Prevent enqueueing when PF_EXITING is set Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 16:26   ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 12:20     ` Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-05 18:59 ` [patch V2 8/8] posix-timers: Handle exit in do_exit() completely Thomas Gleixner
2026-09-06 16:40   ` Oleg Nesterov
2026-09-07 12:27     ` Thomas Gleixner

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