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From: Michael Meissner <meissner@spectacle-pond.org>
To: Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de>
Cc: Michael Meissner <meissner@spectacle-pond.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Linux not adhering to BIOS Drive boot order?
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:23:15 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20010116162315.B1609@munchkin.spectacle-pond.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1355693A51C0D211B55A00105ACCFE64E95191@ATL_MS1> <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101161154580.17397-100000@sol.compendium-tech.com> <20010116153757.A1609@munchkin.spectacle-pond.org> <20010116220125.A10985@gruyere.muc.suse.de>
In-Reply-To: <20010116220125.A10985@gruyere.muc.suse.de>; from ak@suse.de on Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 10:01:25PM +0100

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 10:01:25PM +0100, Andi Kleen wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 03:37:57PM -0500, Michael Meissner wrote:
> > don't assume that the way your system gets booted is the way everybody's does,
> > particularly those on platforms other than the x86.
> > 
> > I must say, as a 5 year Linux user (and 23 year UNIX user/administrator), I do
> > get tired of having to hunt down and deal with each of these changes that come
> > up from time to time with Linux (ie, switching from ipfwadm to ipchains to
> > netfilter, or in this case reordering how scsi adapters/network adapters are
> > looked up).
> 
> Bad example. 
> 
> netfilter does not force you to switch anything. You can just load the ipchains
> or even the ipfw module and use your old scripts.

Granted I was mainly thinking of the ipfwadm->ipchains conversion, but you have
to root around and load the appropriate module.  I like to build as much into
the kernel as possible, and it took some amount of time to get things so that I
could build the ipchains modules, since you are presented with choices that
preclude building of the modules.  If I had been using make config instead of
make xconfig, it would have been worse, since I would have to go through the
questions each time to get to the network section.  I could also use the
various incompatible transforms MD support has had over the years for another
example, or the number of times system status monitors break due to changes in
the output of /proc files (and yes I grant you many of the changes are due to
poor programming in the status programs, but not all of them).

Yes, change is one of the things that makes Linux strong.  However, change to
the way things are done can piss people off to using an alternate system, such
as happened to Sun when they changed from the BSD method of system
administration to System V many years ago.

-- 
Michael Meissner, Red Hat, Inc.  (GCC group)
PMB 198, 174 Littleton Road #3, Westford, Massachusetts 01886, USA
Work:	  meissner@redhat.com		phone: +1 978-486-9304
Non-work: meissner@spectacle-pond.org	fax:   +1 978-692-4482
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  reply	other threads:[~2001-01-16 21:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-01-16 16:43 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 20:01 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-01-16 20:37   ` Michael Meissner
2001-01-16 21:01     ` Andi Kleen
2001-01-16 21:23       ` Michael Meissner [this message]
2001-01-16 23:32     ` J . A . Magallon
2001-01-17  0:05       ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-01-17  0:42       ` Michael Meissner
2001-01-17  2:14         ` Peter Samuelson
2001-01-17 17:22           ` Michael Meissner
2001-01-17 18:41         ` Douglas Gilbert
2001-01-17  9:45       ` Ishikawa
2001-01-17 15:45         ` J . A . Magallon
2001-01-16 23:51     ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-01-17 19:22   ` Werner Almesberger
2001-01-17 20:32     ` Matti Aarnio
2001-01-17 20:46       ` Werner Almesberger
2001-01-17 21:26     ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-01-18 16:55 David Balazic
2001-01-18 19:49 ` Tim Fletcher
2001-01-18 16:36 Andries.Brouwer
2001-01-18 11:01 David Balazic
2001-01-18 11:35 ` Tim Fletcher
2001-01-18 13:01   ` Xavier Bestel
2001-01-18 14:03     ` Tim Fletcher
2001-01-17 11:04 David Balazic
2001-01-17 10:56 David Balazic
2001-01-17 10:48 David Balazic
2001-01-17 23:23 ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-18 10:14   ` David Balazic
2001-01-17 10:21 David Balazic
2001-01-17 10:28 ` Boszormenyi Zoltan
2001-01-16 22:54 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 20:35 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 20:14 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 20:30 ` Dr. Kelsey Hudson
2001-01-16 21:18   ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-17 15:33   ` Mike Porter
2001-01-17 16:16     ` James Bottomley
2001-01-17 17:07       ` Craig Ruff
2001-01-18 12:50       ` Peter Samuelson
2001-01-18 17:59         ` idalton
2001-01-18 18:14           ` Peter Samuelson
2001-01-18 20:53           ` Matti Aarnio
2001-01-18 22:55             ` David Weinehall
2001-01-16 17:39 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 17:58 ` David Woodhouse
2001-01-16 21:11   ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-17  9:38     ` David Woodhouse
2001-01-17  9:55       ` Jeff Garzik
2001-01-17 10:19         ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-17 10:02       ` David Woodhouse
2001-01-19  1:17         ` H. Peter Anvin
2001-01-17 10:12       ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-17 23:19         ` Russell King
2001-01-17 19:50 ` Werner Almesberger
2001-01-17 20:43   ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-18  0:14     ` Tim Fletcher
2001-01-18  0:39       ` Andreas Dilger
2001-01-18  0:59         ` Tim Fletcher
2001-01-18  9:41         ` Helge Hafting
2001-01-16 17:30 Bryan Henderson
2001-01-16 17:04 David Balazic
     [not found] <Venkateshr@ami.com>
2001-01-16 16:56 ` Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 19:52   ` John Summerfield
2001-01-16 16:51 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 17:09 ` Honza Pazdziora
2001-01-16 16:46 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 16:35 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 17:04 ` Brian Gerst
2001-01-16 17:24   ` Eddie Williams
2001-01-16 18:22   ` Timur Tabi
2001-01-16 19:18     ` Matthew D. Pitts
2001-01-16 19:54     ` Christopher Friesen
2001-01-16 21:04     ` Timur Tabi
2001-01-16 22:51 ` Peter Samuelson
2001-01-16 16:31 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 16:53 ` Eddie Williams
2001-01-16 19:48 ` John Summerfield
2001-01-16 16:19 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 16:23 ` Florent Cueto
2001-01-16 16:31 ` Brian Gerst
2001-01-16 16:40 ` Dominik Kubla
2001-01-16 15:49 Venkatesh Ramamurthy
2001-01-16 16:06 ` David Woodhouse
2001-01-16 16:27 ` Arjan van de Ven
2001-01-16 16:40 ` Matthias Andree
2001-01-16 16:45 ` Douglas Gilbert
2001-01-16 17:38 ` Malahal Rao Naineni

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